tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post5755359978779175666..comments2021-10-15T18:11:50.039-07:00Comments on Teton Tenkara: New Tenkara USA rods: Sato and Rhodo -- reviewTom Davishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-17315509052438515972013-12-13T12:09:16.840-08:002013-12-13T12:09:16.840-08:00Hopefully soon. Thanks for the encouraging nudge T...Hopefully soon. Thanks for the encouraging nudge Tom.<br />JDSmithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-88613289663152129932013-12-12T14:26:17.980-08:002013-12-12T14:26:17.980-08:00Thanks JD. Get your hands on one or both. They are...Thanks JD. Get your hands on one or both. They are pretty impressive. Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-31071649077270040462013-12-12T14:25:42.124-08:002013-12-12T14:25:42.124-08:00Thanks An. They are great rods.Thanks An. They are great rods.Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-44462342430402800612013-12-12T01:39:57.152-08:002013-12-12T01:39:57.152-08:00re airstage, you really should, you are missing ou...re airstage, you really should, you are missing out big time. when I get my sato I'll compare to the airstage, sagiri, and oni, and drop you a note.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05367712526601241590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-57047355005492134802013-12-11T21:42:26.804-08:002013-12-11T21:42:26.804-08:00Most excellent reviews. I am salivating and saving...Most excellent reviews. I am salivating and saving up. Kudos Tenkara USAAnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737839452227394850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-14230703776392173692013-12-11T21:37:07.953-08:002013-12-11T21:37:07.953-08:00Unless you always hold all rods right at the butt ...Unless you always hold all rods right at the butt cap, it would make sense to measure from the heel of your hand where you actually hold the rod. On rods with two grip positions, I almost always hold the rod on the forward position. Because the forward position on the Daiwa LL36SF is quite a bit further from the butt than it is on the Zerosum due to the longer grip, it significantly changes the effective M for the rods. For me, the Effective M for the Daiwa is 3.9 and the Effective M on the Zerosum 360 7:3 is 4.2. Choking up shortens the rod, but it also has a dramatic impact on the Effective M. Chris Stewarthttp://www.tenkarabum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-51762040292822142442013-12-11T20:05:10.362-08:002013-12-11T20:05:10.362-08:00No worries Chris. I had worked the equation rearra...No worries Chris. I had worked the equation rearranged to calculate CoG using the rod weights from your website. But it was a private message that pointed out he thought you meant inches. My calculated CG was a little different probably due to difference from website weight to your actual rod weight. However, converting your numbers to cm and working the equation for rod weights, they came out very close to the web site weights. Still it is interesting the CoG values of the Sato, LL36 and Zerosum are all about the same value and the individual Moment numbers will give a hint at how they will feel a little different. DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-16187927010222162932013-12-11T19:48:46.568-08:002013-12-11T19:48:46.568-08:00Thanks Tom. Very good review. I always appreciate ...Thanks Tom. Very good review. I always appreciate that you spend the time to do this stuff for us.<br />JDSmithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-71610474068224230552013-12-11T18:46:19.933-08:002013-12-11T18:46:19.933-08:00OOPS I misread my own table and gave you the CG in...OOPS I misread my own table and gave you the CG in inches rather than cm. Should have been 67.3 for the 6:4 rod and 68.6 for the 7:3. There is some variation from rod to rod, and also from person to person in how firmly they seat the segments. The Zerosum 360 7:3 that I measured was 71g, compared to Toms rod of 67g. <br />Chris Stewarthttp://www.tenkarabum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-7518644879176391692013-12-11T16:29:22.958-08:002013-12-11T16:29:22.958-08:00My Zerosum 360 7:3 weighs 67g and has a balance po...My Zerosum 360 7:3 weighs 67g and has a balance point (CoG) at 72 cm. Therefore its moment is 4.82. My Sato's moment at 360 is 5.03. This despite my Sato at 360 is really only 352 cm long and my Zerosum is really 365 cm long! The Zerosum is a lighter, less tip heavy rod even though its longer than the Sato. Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-73729212463486332942013-12-11T15:45:31.691-08:002013-12-11T15:45:31.691-08:00"How would you contrast the sense of weight a..."How would you contrast the sense of weight and tip heaviness of these two rods with nearly identical CoG?"<br /><br />The Ayu II is heavy in hand and tip heavy. It is much more so than the Sato, as predicted by the moment calculation.Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-89524434527795418452013-12-11T15:42:44.853-08:002013-12-11T15:42:44.853-08:00My Suntech Suikei is a 320,360,390 triple-zoom rod...My Suntech Suikei is a 320,360,390 triple-zoom rod like the Sato. It's measured lengths are 318, 358.5 and 392 cm respectively. That is why I am a bit disappointed with the Sato. Because I know that the tolerance can be better!Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-65127191224002483312013-12-11T15:39:16.774-08:002013-12-11T15:39:16.774-08:00Thanks Carlos. Its good to hear from you. Yes, wha...Thanks Carlos. Its good to hear from you. Yes, what rods do we sell!Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-41304847749512747982013-12-11T11:28:52.125-08:002013-12-11T11:28:52.125-08:00Tom, the Nissin ZSum 360 is a 65g rod. vs the 75...Tom, the Nissin ZSum 360 is a 65g rod. vs the 75g Sato. What are your CoG and M numbers for the 7:3 ZS360? Would you conclude the M and CoG numbers of the Sato at 360cm tells you anything practical about it in contrast to the ZS360 7:3? <br /><br /> iow - if I had a ZS 7:3 do you think reading the M and CoG numbers of the Sato at 360cm would give me any practical insight into the different feel I might expect by comparison if I ordered a Sato. I'm not trying to play one rod against the other. Just trying to learn if the Moment and CoG will really tell me anything practical about rod selection if I was thinking of ordering any new rod where M value is known. Tnx. dwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-41303991165703944972013-12-11T11:11:57.131-08:002013-12-11T11:11:57.131-08:00Your COG numbers seem incredibly short. Rearrangin...Your COG numbers seem incredibly short. Rearranging the Moment formula to get rod weight gives me RW = M/COG. For the 7:3 RW = 4.87/27 = 180g or 6.35 oz. A bit on the heavy side.<br /><br />Good point about Tom's Sato390 is really the Sato378. Variations from specified length theoretically could introduce slight inaccuracies. otoh - The tip section on the Nissin ProSpec is 37cm long. If I moved it back 12cm I doubt the change in CoG measurement would change by more that inaccuracies of my scale or my accuracy in reading the tape measure. . dw<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-74767765763452947282013-12-11T09:56:28.744-08:002013-12-11T09:56:28.744-08:00Thanks.However, my question got lost in the data. ...Thanks.However, my question got lost in the data. Let me rephrase it. Tom, the Sato 390 and Ayu2 both have almost identical CoG lengths. 80.57cm / 81.4cm. How would you contrast the sense of weight and tip heaviness of these two rods with nearly identical CoG? <br /><br />I think the answer will give a an insight into the difference between rods of M = 5.96 and M = 8.55. <br /><br />I have concluded the Moment number is built into the rod blank - after Greg discovered adding weight to the grip decreases CoG but does not change the Moment number. At least - That is part of my current thinking about what the Moment number tells us. DWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-85879875289090624582013-12-11T09:24:11.467-08:002013-12-11T09:24:11.467-08:00Well, there ya go. The 330cm length is short by 1....Well, there ya go. The 330cm length is short by 1.21%. The same percentage as 5cm short of 390cm you thought acceptable. And 8cm short of 360cm doubles the percentage to 2.22%. 12 cm short at 390 is 3.08% short, almost triple the 1.2% set at the 330cm length. Triple zoom = 3 places for tolerance to go, Plus or Minus . DWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-72329869739799054122013-12-11T07:16:49.788-08:002013-12-11T07:16:49.788-08:00David, the Zerosum 360 rods are as follows:
6:4 ro...David, the Zerosum 360 rods are as follows:<br />6:4 rod<br />COG 26.5cm<br />M 4.24<br /><br />7:3 rod<br />COG 27cm<br />M 4.87<br /><br />The rods do appear to be a step up for TUSA although they don't match the Zerosums or even the 320 and 360 Pro Squares in terms of weight and moment. Hard to compare the 390 rods because the Sato is really a 378.Chris Stewarthttp://www.tenkarabum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-22794537941447297482013-12-11T06:41:01.652-08:002013-12-11T06:41:01.652-08:00Nice work Tom. It sure was worth waiting.
Now y...Nice work Tom. It sure was worth waiting. <br />Now you an Daniel let us all tenkara anglers in a budget with<br />a serius problem to solve; What rod(s) to sell? ;-) BLATThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08208018269139723012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-7704828264116795162013-12-11T06:29:13.601-08:002013-12-11T06:29:13.601-08:00Thanks DW. Nice data.Thanks DW. Nice data.Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-26572081959667093952013-12-11T06:27:47.256-08:002013-12-11T06:27:47.256-08:00Hi Craig,
I haven't seen an Airstage yet. I&#...Hi Craig,<br /><br />I haven't seen an Airstage yet. I'll have to see if I can borrow one from Chris sometime. <br /><br />The Sato is a little stiffer than the Oni. In my hands they cast slightly differently, the Oni still being best in my view. The Sato has some end-of-cast tip oscillation while the Oni doesn't. As far as fish landing, they seem comparable but need more data for this (I need to catch more fish!!).Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-21608856124045714262013-12-11T06:24:20.378-08:002013-12-11T06:24:20.378-08:00DW,
The 360 length was measured as actually 352 c...DW,<br /><br />The 360 length was measured as actually 352 cm, 8 cm shy. The 330 was measured as 326, which is better.Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-8568609767578032172013-12-11T06:22:35.408-08:002013-12-11T06:22:35.408-08:00Thanks Morgan!Thanks Morgan!Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-85648084898892030982013-12-11T06:22:21.627-08:002013-12-11T06:22:21.627-08:00Thank Steve. Everyone needs another rod! :)Thank Steve. Everyone needs another rod! :)Tom Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240935660681343164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4952460912398461727.post-77056138604161408202013-12-11T00:57:56.965-08:002013-12-11T00:57:56.965-08:00Secondly. This review is a chance to see if the Mo...Secondly. This review is a chance to see if the Moment numbers can tell us anything practical. Sato 390 should have a CG=5.96/74g = 80.54cm. Similar to the Ayu2 , CG= 81.4 cm. However, the Ayu2 weights 42% more, and has a higher M of 8.55. My guess is the lower M number overrides the similar CG length and tells us the Sato will feel more balanced despite similar CG lengths and also be easier to swing.<br />The Sato 360 numbers compare very well to the Daiwa LL36 a 72 gram rod. Sato M = 5.03 vs Daiwa LL36 M= 4.82, & Sato CG = 67.97cm vs Daiwa LL CG = 67cm. Or the Nissin PS at 360cm extension a 67 gram rod with M = 4.33 & CG=64.7cm. It would be interesting to see the M and CG numbers of the Zerosum 360 in comparison. DWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com